I have noticed in the NW and in pictures from other areas that not all cars are safe in case of a roll-over. Many students have their knees drawn up because of short leg room. This causes their knees to be higher than the plane from the roll-bar to the front support member. Also many cars do not have adequate coverage over their legs to keep them from dragging on the ground if the vehicle was to roll over and slide along the ground. I realize that there is some wording in the handbook about this but it is not as clear as it could be and not all areas, including the NW, are not strictly enforcing these rules. I feel that there needs to be some type of bar that passes over the thigh above the knee and that there should be a complete coverage of some sort over the nose cone area (or short straps holding the legs in) so that the feet and knees can not move away from the bottom of the car and drag in case of a roll over.
Does anyone want to take on this that is better with words than I am??
Jim said
May 20, 2011
Beltline... I would like to see the beltline increased. I am not talking about gaining weight here but increasing the overall height from the bottom of the frame to at least match the height of the thighs and knees or the stomach if lying flat. As a sometimes-inspector, I am deeply concerned about what I feel is an inadequate amount of side protection. Because the height of the frame is so low, another driver could literally drive up into the passenger compartment in a T-Bone situation. Also, the arms are able to lie on the asphalt in the resting position since there is no restriction here. I want to see a change to increase the beltline for safety. I see this program as a special event that will lead many students to continue their education or help them choose a career path. I would really hate to see it all end because of a wreck.
arcflash said
May 21, 2011
I agree, I think there should be a bar or belt and put it above the legs/knees. To keep your legs from flying out when rolling over. (skip to 0:40)
This is a good example of what your legs can do without the protection over the bottom part of the legs. Just like the video the strap wouldn't have to be tight just enough to keep your legs in.
mhodgertt said
May 21, 2011
Arcflash, Thanks for the video. I really think we need to look at this as a necessity for safety. In the NW and I have seen many vehicles in others in pictures/videos from other areas that the legs are just laying in the car. There is not a nose cone that comes from the feet to above the knees or any type of bar or strap to keep legs in. I wish others would voice their thought on this as well. Mike
mhodgertt said
May 21, 2011
In the EA handbook section 5 under body it is fairly clear we just need to enforce it ALWAYS. The more times I read the handbook section 5 and section 3 the more I think the handbook is about as clear as it can be. I think that some teams and areas are just not following it and since we all don't want to be the BAD GUY and fail a cars inspections we just look the other way. Next year I hope that this is at least addressed and a car is allowed to race at this race with just a quick tie down or quick fix but to be able to race at the next race the protection of legs/feet, arms/hands, and side protection MUST be corrected completely.
5.1 All vehicles must provide a body /chassis structure sufficient to protect the driver from impact from any side. A suitable structure or shell is required to provide a barrier between the driver and any contact with another vehicle or the ground.
5.2 THIS BODY STRUCTURE NEEDS TO PROTECT THE DRIVER'S LEGS, FEET, AND SIDE UP TO THE SHOULDER LEVEL PROTECTION THE RIB CAGE FROM SIDE IMPACT.
5.3 The legs and feet must be enclosed to prevent therm from leaving the vehicle in an accident and provide protection against frontal impact.
5.5 A body is not required if the frame or chassis shell will prevent the driver's arms and legs from leaving the vehicle and prevent another vehicles parts from entering the vehicle during an accident.
In all races, including the ones that I run, I hope we will STRICTLY enforce these rules then I believe that the problems we have with both leg and side protection will be met.
Maybe all that needs to be done is to make the inspection sheet a little more clear on what is meant by:
____ Bodywork or structural protection from head on and side impact & encloses all of the drivers body parts -- the NW inspection sheet MAYBE CHANGE TO THIS-- ____ BODYWORK OR STRUCTURAL PROTECTION FROM HEAD ON & AND SIDE IMPACT & ENCLOSES ALL OF THE DRIVER'S BODY PARTS INCLUDING ARMS / LEGS SO THEY CAN NOT ESCAPE THE VEHICLE'S PROTECTION IN A ROLLOVER OR ANY OTHER CRASH.
----- Structure or body shell protects driver from harm -- The inspection sheet in the handbook. Maybe just rework the handbook inspection sheet that I don't think has bee redone in several years.
I have noticed in the NW and in pictures from other areas that not all cars are safe in case of a roll-over. Many students have their knees drawn up because of short leg room. This causes their knees to be higher than the plane from the roll-bar to the front support member. Also many cars do not have adequate coverage over their legs to keep them from dragging on the ground if the vehicle was to roll over and slide along the ground. I realize that there is some wording in the handbook about this but it is not as clear as it could be and not all areas, including the NW, are not strictly enforcing these rules. I feel that there needs to be some type of bar that passes over the thigh above the knee and that there should be a complete coverage of some sort over the nose cone area (or short straps holding the legs in) so that the feet and knees can not move away from the bottom of the car and drag in case of a roll over.
Does anyone want to take on this that is better with words than I am??
Beltline... I would like to see the beltline increased. I am not talking about gaining weight here but increasing the overall height from the bottom of the frame to at least match the height of the thighs and knees or the stomach if lying flat. As a sometimes-inspector, I am deeply concerned about what I feel is an inadequate amount of side protection. Because the height of the frame is so low, another driver could literally drive up into the passenger compartment in a T-Bone situation. Also, the arms are able to lie on the asphalt in the resting position since there is no restriction here. I want to see a change to increase the beltline for safety. I see this program as a special event that will lead many students to continue their education or help them choose a career path. I would really hate to see it all end because of a wreck.
I agree, I think there should be a bar or belt and put it above the legs/knees. To keep your legs from flying out when rolling over. (skip to 0:40)
This is a good example of what your legs can do without the protection over the bottom part of the legs. Just like the video the strap wouldn't have to be tight just enough to keep your legs in.
Thanks for the video. I really think we need to look at this as a necessity for safety. In the NW and I have seen many vehicles in others in pictures/videos from other areas that the legs are just laying in the car. There is not a nose cone that comes from the feet to above the knees or any type of bar or strap to keep legs in. I wish others would voice their thought on this as well.
Mike
5.1 All vehicles must provide a body /chassis structure sufficient to protect the driver from impact from any side. A suitable structure or shell is required to provide a barrier between the driver and any contact with another vehicle or the ground.
5.2 THIS BODY STRUCTURE NEEDS TO PROTECT THE DRIVER'S LEGS, FEET, AND SIDE UP TO THE SHOULDER LEVEL PROTECTION THE RIB CAGE FROM SIDE IMPACT.
5.3 The legs and feet must be enclosed to prevent therm from leaving the vehicle in an accident and provide protection against frontal impact.
5.5 A body is not required if the frame or chassis shell will prevent the driver's arms and legs from leaving the vehicle and prevent another vehicles parts from entering the vehicle during an accident.
In all races, including the ones that I run, I hope we will STRICTLY enforce these rules then I believe that the problems we have with both leg and side protection will be met.
Maybe all that needs to be done is to make the inspection sheet a little more clear on what is meant by:
____ Bodywork or structural protection from head on and side impact & encloses all of the drivers body parts -- the NW inspection sheet MAYBE CHANGE TO THIS--
____ BODYWORK OR STRUCTURAL PROTECTION FROM HEAD ON & AND SIDE IMPACT & ENCLOSES ALL OF THE DRIVER'S BODY PARTS INCLUDING ARMS / LEGS SO THEY CAN NOT ESCAPE THE VEHICLE'S PROTECTION IN A ROLLOVER OR ANY OTHER CRASH.
----- Structure or body shell protects driver from harm -- The inspection sheet in the handbook. Maybe just rework the handbook inspection sheet that I don't think has bee redone in several years.