Getting Cars to conform to Electrathon America rules
Ron said
Apr 2, 2017
As a Tech inspector (northwest region) I am concerned about the number of cars I inspect
that seem to have been built without reading the rule book....
Over the past few years I have seen cars that have had NO barrier (belly pan) between the driver and ground
a car with no discernible side protection, and MULTIPLE Roll Bar infractions
(check out latest youtube vids of Jasper Alabama race, I am not sure if more than 2 or 3 cars would pass tech in the N.W.)
I even had a car once that the seat belts were attached to the frame with BOOTLACES!!!!!
I am concerned for the safety of our drivers (especially our students) and the liability that we could incur from not keeping our members "in line"
with the rules that are there primarily for the safety of the sport. (loss of insurance coverage possibly?)
any Ideas on how to keep our "sanctioning body" on the same page all across the country?
I'd just hate to see somebody get hurt... when following the rules that are already there would keep them safe.....
I realize that there will always be a few "missed details" on a new car (especially with a first time builder or team)
But do we need a "test" for anybody wanting to be an inspector? (or some other "safety device" such as that)
Help me out folks, I just want our sport to go from "victory to victory"
and not have any unfortunate (and preventable) accident that gives it a "black eye" so to speak...
-- Edited by Ron on Sunday 2nd of April 2017 07:24:06 AM
-- Edited by Ron on Sunday 2nd of April 2017 07:32:31 AM
-- Edited by Ron on Sunday 2nd of April 2017 07:32:57 AM
meangreen said
Apr 2, 2017
Looks like most of the cars running at Jasper were Blue Sky kit cars. The main problem with most of them is they are assembled incorrectly - the roll bar is cut too short. When I was teaching we had a Blue Sky car; it came with a roll bar that had to be cut to desired height. The problem is, most of the builders cut the roll bar way down so it will fit under the canopy and then it's too low. Half the time they end up running without the canopy anyway, but then it's too late - damage is done. We had one of those show up at Astronaut High once that the roll bar only came to the base of the driver's neck! The car had been built the previous year for a much shorter driver who had graduated. The new driver was literally a whole head taller and didn't fit the car. He was allowed to run (much to my dismay!), but the team was told to fix it or don't come back for any more races.
Anyway, to your original question, I would say if a car doesn't meet the rules it doesn't run. Electrathon has been around long enough and the rules are refined enough to keep drivers reasonably safe AS LONG AS THE RULES ARE ENFORCED. Our cars keep getting faster which makes safety ever more important. If builders fail to read the rules it's THEIR problem. One of the best safety inspections I have ever seen is at the "Emerald Coast 120" that takes place in April at Five Flags Speedway in Pensacola, Florida. They have an inspection line similar to what you might see at a professional race. They have a whole team of inspectors who look at specific areas of each car. Safety equipment is inspected, brakes are tested, ground clearance is checked, and even the turning radius is checked (only place I've ever seen that done!). Finally, the driver must strap in and then he/she must exit the car in the prescribed 20 seconds. If the car fails any part of the inspection it doesn't run. Teams can fix problems and get in line again for re-inspection right up to race time, but they must eventually pass all facets of safety inspection or they get to be spectators.
Every sport or activity has rules that intend to improve safety (football players aren't allowed to take the field without their helmets, baseball catchers must have a face mask, etc.). It's not our desire to make anybody mad and we certainly don't want to run anyone off, but it is a reasonable expectation that teams will at least TRY to comply with the rules.
Nitoragro said
Apr 2, 2017
I think a lot of these problems happen in the high schools, or at least from the pictures that I've seen. This is my 3rd year racing and over that time not only has my cars gotten faster but they get a lot safer. This is because any time I do ANY modification to my car my teacher sponsor comes up and checks the car for everything. My own teacher even has told me I can not race unless I fix it, and it can be as simple as a my body paneling being sharp on the bottom, to a hole in a weld. I think the reason my teacher goes so far to checking all my cars is because if I were to crash and something were to break that was not within what he felt was safe he would feel it would be his fault. While at the races the cars should be checked more I think the high school sponsors should be able to go over their school's cars and check for safety problems and more importantly know how to say "No" for me it is easy to argue with a inspector, especially hours before a race, but it is very hard for a high school team to argue with their sponsor days before the race for a rule infraction that they can fix. If there was a way for the teachers to be able to spot the problem before a race I think it could really help. I think the best way to fix this is if the racing leagues were to communicate to the team sponsors and tell them to inspect their school's cars before a race and use the official race inspection form, then it would be a lot easier for a race steward to say no to a team racing.
Archer321 said
Apr 2, 2017
Electrathon America has a well-written, thorough rulebook that is provided to each team and also available for download online. Failure to comply with the rules is a pet peeves of mine especially when they are readily available and so reasonable in nature. If I have to follow the rules, I want my competition to be doing the same.
What if Electrathon America put out a checklist/test online (and perhaps in the new rulebook coming out) that the race organizers can require teams to submit when they register?
Such a test could include things like an overview of safety items and having the teams provide a side picture or drawing of their car where they have to draw the line going over the drivers head between the rollbar and the forward structural member. Even if they lied and drew it incorrectly, at least it would have made them think about their design.
At the end of the checklist there could be a statement that failure to comply with the aforementioned design requirements will result in not being allowed to compete.
Even if our sanctioning body chooses not to implement such a test/checklist, the organizers of individual races could do it on their own. However I believe that if it were to come from the top it would carry more weight and be better accepted.
Ron said
Apr 2, 2017
Thanks to Meangreen, Nitorago, and Archer321 for the prompt replies.
I have had "first timers" that did not read the rules thoroughly enough and had a car that wasn't legal...
but a "well I'll let you go this race...but have it fixed for next race" statement solved the problem..
(of course the car with no belly pan didn't get this option...)
BUT
I am wondering if we (as members with a little more experience) can help the tech inspectors in our areas
(I sure can't get to the Midwest or south from Oregon)
keep our sport safe...
I will admit to letting a "few things slip" for one race to keep a team from dropping out of the program
but after the first race or so they are within the rules...
thanks for the responses.... let's all keep our sport safe and FUN
Brendan_Smith said
Apr 2, 2017
Archer's idea has high merit and was my first thought. I'd suggest a dot-point / checklist format for all of the rules, with tickboxes for each rule and a small area to describe any non-conformity, would mandate the team to ensure they comply prior to arrival at each event (you could mandate that the teams check for compliance and complete their side of the sheet before arriving at scrutineering). I'd place it as the final sheet in the EA rules, so that it's a cakewalk to find it. The scrutineer/s then check the team-completed list for any deviation found, re-check and record any discrepancy, and pass / fail the car with comments. With phone technology being what it is these days, then suggest taking a photo of the accepted sheet so that EA have a record of agreed outcomes for the next event for each car. I've commenced something similar as I try to align my new design to EA rules; here's a small snapshot of it.
I think Archer and Brendan Smith may be on to something here. I like Brendan's checklist. All that stuff is already on the inspector's Vehicle Inspection Form, but this checklist focuses on the important features and has a brief explanation and reference to the actual rule by numbered index. With just a couple little additions (a place to check for proper seat belt harness and a place for a signature) this form could be signed off by the inspectors when a car first passes inspection. Then the car owner could keep the form with the car so that only a quick cursory inspection would be necessary at ensuing events. Of course, if modifications are made to the car that affect any of the safety equipment the inspection would need to be redone.
Here in Florida the majority of races are hosted by the Electrathon of Tampabay Organization (ETO). Many of us have been participating for quite a while with the same cars, so the head tech inspector is familiar with the teams and cars. When a new car shows up he goes over it pretty thoroughly, but after that he is able to just take a quick look and ask if any changes have been made. If there was some sort of official checklist that traveled with each car, it could be used to expedite tech inspection at races outside the team's normal venue.
As a Tech inspector (northwest region) I am concerned about the number of cars I inspect
that seem to have been built without reading the rule book....
Over the past few years I have seen cars that have had NO barrier (belly pan) between the driver and ground
a car with no discernible side protection, and MULTIPLE Roll Bar infractions
(check out latest youtube vids of Jasper Alabama race, I am not sure if more than 2 or 3 cars would pass tech in the N.W.)
I even had a car once that the seat belts were attached to the frame with BOOTLACES!!!!!
I am concerned for the safety of our drivers (especially our students) and the liability that we could incur from not keeping our members "in line"
with the rules that are there primarily for the safety of the sport. (loss of insurance coverage possibly?)
any Ideas on how to keep our "sanctioning body" on the same page all across the country?
I'd just hate to see somebody get hurt... when following the rules that are already there would keep them safe.....
I realize that there will always be a few "missed details" on a new car (especially with a first time builder or team)
But do we need a "test" for anybody wanting to be an inspector? (or some other "safety device" such as that)
Help me out folks, I just want our sport to go from "victory to victory"
and not have any unfortunate (and preventable) accident that gives it a "black eye" so to speak...
-- Edited by Ron on Sunday 2nd of April 2017 07:24:06 AM
-- Edited by Ron on Sunday 2nd of April 2017 07:32:31 AM
-- Edited by Ron on Sunday 2nd of April 2017 07:32:57 AM
Anyway, to your original question, I would say if a car doesn't meet the rules it doesn't run. Electrathon has been around long enough and the rules are refined enough to keep drivers reasonably safe AS LONG AS THE RULES ARE ENFORCED. Our cars keep getting faster which makes safety ever more important. If builders fail to read the rules it's THEIR problem. One of the best safety inspections I have ever seen is at the "Emerald Coast 120" that takes place in April at Five Flags Speedway in Pensacola, Florida. They have an inspection line similar to what you might see at a professional race. They have a whole team of inspectors who look at specific areas of each car. Safety equipment is inspected, brakes are tested, ground clearance is checked, and even the turning radius is checked (only place I've ever seen that done!). Finally, the driver must strap in and then he/she must exit the car in the prescribed 20 seconds. If the car fails any part of the inspection it doesn't run. Teams can fix problems and get in line again for re-inspection right up to race time, but they must eventually pass all facets of safety inspection or they get to be spectators.
Every sport or activity has rules that intend to improve safety (football players aren't allowed to take the field without their helmets, baseball catchers must have a face mask, etc.). It's not our desire to make anybody mad and we certainly don't want to run anyone off, but it is a reasonable expectation that teams will at least TRY to comply with the rules.
I have had "first timers" that did not read the rules thoroughly enough and had a car that wasn't legal...
but a "well I'll let you go this race...but have it fixed for next race" statement solved the problem..
(of course the car with no belly pan didn't get this option...)
BUT
I am wondering if we (as members with a little more experience) can help the tech inspectors in our areas
(I sure can't get to the Midwest or south from Oregon)
keep our sport safe...
I will admit to letting a "few things slip" for one race to keep a team from dropping out of the program
but after the first race or so they are within the rules...
thanks for the responses.... let's all keep our sport safe and FUN
Archer's idea has high merit and was my first thought.
I'd suggest a dot-point / checklist format for all of the rules, with tickboxes for each rule and a small area to describe any non-conformity, would mandate the team to ensure they comply prior to arrival at each event (you could mandate that the teams check for compliance and complete their side of the sheet before arriving at scrutineering). I'd place it as the final sheet in the EA rules, so that it's a cakewalk to find it.
The scrutineer/s then check the team-completed list for any deviation found, re-check and record any discrepancy, and pass / fail the car with comments. With phone technology being what it is these days, then suggest taking a photo of the accepted sheet so that EA have a record of agreed outcomes for the next event for each car.
I've commenced something similar as I try to align my new design to EA rules; here's a small snapshot of it.
Here in Florida the majority of races are hosted by the Electrathon of Tampabay Organization (ETO). Many of us have been participating for quite a while with the same cars, so the head tech inspector is familiar with the teams and cars. When a new car shows up he goes over it pretty thoroughly, but after that he is able to just take a quick look and ask if any changes have been made. If there was some sort of official checklist that traveled with each car, it could be used to expedite tech inspection at races outside the team's normal venue.