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Post Info TOPIC: Polaris (Electrathon racecar)


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Polaris (Electrathon racecar)
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Howdy all,

I've been building go karts & mini-vehicles for a few years & just recently found out about Electrathon America 

&

I think it's so kool, that I started designing & building a racer, Polaris (I name all of my creations)

 

I'll be a (3) wheeler

...mainly built it out of some 1/2" Schedule 40 water pipe

...& some 1/4" steel rod

 

It's basically (2) full length trusses (kinda dragster style)

...incorporating over 40 triangles (ample triangulation)

 

Here is a drawing of the lower level of the chassis

* In an effort to "keep it light & simple" all of the "cross members" are dual purpose 

SAM_0484 (3).JPG

Here is a front view of the overall shape

SAM_0485 (3).JPG



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Here are a couple of pics of the chassis (just painted Satin Black yesterday) biggrinSAM_0554 (3).JPG

The other side

* I didn't paint the spindle mounting tubes or their attachment areas yet.

They are just tac welded on for now

I set the Castor to ~10* positive

...& the Camber to ~10* negitive

I want to do some testing

...before welding them on good-n-solid

...& then, painting 

SAM_0555 (3).JPG

Front view

SAM_0556 (3).JPG



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Wheels
I got (3) plastic BMX bicycle mag wheels
...(2) fronts (for the front)
...& (1) rear (for the rear)

The rear wheel has a threaded on freewheel unit, that I added a 72T #35 sprocket to
SAM_0111.JPG
Here's how its attached/installed on the freewheel unit

SAM_0114.JPG

Rear wheel with freewheel unit & sprocket installed

SAM_0123.JPG

The front wheels didn't have threaded hubs
...so, I made up some "hub rings"
...& bonded (using Loc-Tite) on some 48mm brake rotor hub adapters
...& then, bolted them on (using (3) 3/16" x 3" Stainless Steel bolts) for added strength & hopefully increased durability

SAM_0493 (3).JPG
Here is the other side

SAM_0494 (3).JPGBearings

I also, removed the stock bearings, races & 3/8" axles from the wheels
...& then, installed some R8RS bearings

 

*These bearings have a 1/2" ID for upgrading to 1/2" axles (as per the rule book)

 

I had to use some .025 shim material to get the bearings to fit "snuggly" in the hubs

...& also, used some Loc-Tite High Strength Bearing Retainer, to "glue" them in

Here is a front wheel (with bearing installed)

SAM_0497 (3).JPG

Rear wheel (with bearing installed)

SAM_0498 (3).JPG

After assembly, I inserted some 1/2" bolts, to make sure the bearings would set properly &/or squarely, with each other 

SAM_0510 (3).JPG



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I made up a pair of custom spindles

SAM_0441 (1).JPG

A piece of string (ran from the middle of the rear axle up thru/over each king pin) helped to establish the Ackermann angle, necessary for good steering geometry

SAM_0417.JPG



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For the front spindles, I made a custom weldment to help get access to the 1/2" grade 8 bolt, for welding

...& it will leave a nice shoulder for the bearing (or washer) to ride against

SAM_0476 (3).JPG

...& then, used a piece of conduit as a spacer & protective cover, to hold the bolt "in place", while welding

SAM_0475 (3).JPG

After welding

* Notice the shoulder, the weldment leaves?

SAM_0507 (3).JPG

Here's the other side, after welding 

SAM_0506 (3).JPG

Here are the spindles, all painted & ready for installation

SAM_0528 (3).JPG

 



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Looks like you're making good progress. Keep it up!

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Thanks Archer!


Yup, I'm moving right along

...& so, I painted up some of the wheel "hardware" (sometimes little details make a big difference)

For reference, here is an excerpt from the official Electrathon Rule Book

9 BRAKES and AXLES
1. At least two wheels must have brakes.
2. Brakes must be fitted to two wheels of the same axle. Either both front wheels or both rear wheels depending on vehicle construction.
3. The two brakes must have separate actuation cables. If both brakes are to be actuated by a single hand or foot lever then both cables should be attached to the lever.
4. Regenerative braking is permitted in addition to conventional brakes.
5. The vehicle must not roll if pushed while brakes are applied.
The vehicle must also be able to demonstrate a straight stop from a speed of 25 MPH in less than 40 feet.
6. Axles supported at both ends must have a diameter of at least 3/8"(10mm).
7. Axles supported only on one end must have a diameter at least ½"(12mm)
8. Safety wire or cotter pins must be used to secure cantilevered wheel axle nuts.
Nylon lock nuts and double nuts alone are not acceptable

 

With Rotors on both front wheels
...& Calipers on both Spindles
...it looks like we've got #1 & #2 "covered"

SAM_0534 (3).JPG

To comply with #3, I made up a dual brake cable attachment "piece", that works with the dual brake cable mount, to connect both cables to the brake pedal 

SAM_0599 (1).JPG

The upgrade to 1/2" axles helped us comply with #7

...& then, to comply with #8, I used a couple of 1/2" rod Pins (from a riding lawn mower) in conjunction with a couple of 1/2" Loc-Nuts, to mount the front wheels

SAM_0597 (1).JPG

 



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I incorporated some of the RS bearings into the spindle tubes (I think they are also, refered to as Boss Tubes)
...& used some 1/2" x 5" Grade 8 bolts (for good-n-strong King Pins)


Upper Spindle Bearing

SAM_0529 (3).JPG

Lower Spindle Bearing

SAM_0530 (3).JPG
I also, used bearings on the Steering Shaft which, along with the Spindle Bearings, should give us some nice-n-smooth, steering action biggrin

SAM_0532 (3).JPG



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A friend brought to my attention his concern about having the brake cables connected to the brake pedal vertically (one over the other)

He thought that the upper cable could/would be pulled on quicker &/or harder than the lower cable, causing a dangerous, uneven braking situation.
...& thought that it would be better, if the cables were connected to the brake pedal, horizontally (next to each other)

After thinking it thru, I told him that "if" the cables were connected, directly to the brake pedal vertically (one over the other)
...the brake pedals mounting bolt, would be the fulcrum
...& so yes, the upper pedal could/would be pulled on quicker or harder (because the upper cable would be further away from the fulcrum, than the lower cable is)

But
I think that when I incorporated the dual brake cable connector
...the fulcrum moved from the brake pedal bolt
...up to the dual brake connectors bolt
&
Since both brake cables are connected at the same distance from the fulcrum
...they, should get pulled on evenly

Does that sound about right?

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I think that will work well. Clever!

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Here's an introduction

...& first spin test's video



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Thanks ProEV!

Here is another excerpt from the (official) Electrathon America Rule Book

12 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
1. A fuse or circuit breaker is required in any electrical circuit between the battery and any electrical device.
2. All fuses or circuit breakers should be mounted as close as practically possible to the source of power.
3. All fuses or breakers should be sized to protect the wiring to which they are connected. The current rating of fuses and breakers shall be no more than those listed in the adjacent table for standard automotive cable.

13 ISOLATION SWITCH
1. An isolation switch (kill switch) is required on all vehicles.
This switch must have a break current rating that exceeds the maximum current draw of the vehicle.
2. The switch must be located in the main positive power cable between the battery and any motor controller.
3. An actuator may be attached to the switch for remote operation provided that it is durable and reliable.
4. Means must be provided for both the driver and race officials to actuate an isolation switch.
5. The driver must be able to actuate the switch while in driving position and without reaching outside the vehicle.
6. Race officials must be able to actuate the switch from outside the vehicle without reaching in.
7. Two switches may be installed if necessary.
8. A circuit breaker may be used as the isolation switch.
9. The switch or actuator accessible from outside the vehicle must be mounted within a solid red triangle whose sides are at least 4 inches and in contrast to vehicle color or graphics.
10. Wiring must be well insulated and securely attached to the frame or body. All wiring must be kept free from moving parts and protected from chafing.
11. Wiring that passes through a hole with sharp edges or through sheet metal must be protected by an insulating grommet or other suitable device.
12. Terminals must be secured so they will not come loose or short out during a competition.
13. No part of the electrical system may use the vehicle frame as a conductor. The frame must not be grounded.

I'm going to use a 48V 50A Circuit Breaker as a re-settable fuse

...& Isolation Switch (to comply with #1 & allowed by #8)

I made up a mounting bracket to hold the Circuit Breaker
...& a small Voltage Meter too

* The meter will be wired so, it will be "on", when the CB is "on" to indicate that the system is "powered up" or "live"
...& also, display the systems current voltage level biggrin

To comply with # 9, I rounded up a scrap piece of red vinyl 

...cut it into a ~4" triangle 

...& installed it under the CB

...but then, my friend mentioned that the Red Triangle isn't solid red no

SAM_0694 (2).JPG



-- Edited by Functional Artist on Tuesday 3rd of October 2023 12:32:45 PM

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Here's the throttle & linkage set up, that I'm using

SAM_0719 (2).JPG

It's just a simple thumb throttle, mounted on a post

* The second hole (in the thumb throttle) is for a return spring (for good-n-quick" return action")

SAM_0722 (2).JPG

Actuated by the throttle pedal via a cable

SAM_0720 (2).JPG



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A friend commented that "where you have the "safety pins" located, could/will allow the nut to come loose up to ~1/4"

So, I double checked in the Rule Book

9 BRAKES and AXLES
8. Safety wire or cotter pins must be used to secure cantilevered wheel axle nuts. Nylon lock nuts and double nuts alone are not acceptable.
 (page 8)

I was thinking that the intent of the "safety wire" was to make sure the retaining nut could not unthread all of the way, whereas the wheel could actually come off of the vehicle
&
I'm not sure if having a wheel simply "come loose" would be considered a safety thing
...whereas a wheel actually coming off definitely would be 
But,
Then, further back in the rule book, under Vehicle Design Guidelines, it actually says to "use an axle bolt and nut that accepts a cotter pin"

AXLES
One important note: DO NOT USE BICYCLE OR MOPED AXLES UNLESS SUPPORTEDAT BOTH ENDS. If your axles are cantilevered (attached on one side only like a wheelchair) you MUST replace the stock axle with a 1/2" or12mm diameter bolt. Axle diameters less than 12mm are illegal. A bicycle or moped axle WILL break. It is easy to pull out the stock axle and replace it with a larger one. You must replace the wheel bearings with cartridge bearing assemblies. These can be found at bearing supply stores. Use an axle bolt and nut that accepts a cotter pin so your wheel doesn't come off. This is a rule requirement. 
(page 23)

So, what (if any) is the difference between "Rules & Guidelines" in the Electrathon America Rule Book?

...& would the Safety Pins, I have on Polaris, pass an inspection?



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Power Train

Motor: MY-1020 motor
...48V 1,000W brushed
...rated speed ~3,000RPM's
...current draw ~20A
...~1.2HP

Controller: YK31
...48V (rated voltage)
...20A (rated current)
...~42VDC Low Voltage Cut-off

Powered by: (I'm going to try/test a few different battery packs)
...1st test - (4) 12V 12AH SLA batteries (~8 lbs. ea. so ~32 lbs. total)
...2nd test - (4) 12V 17AH SLA's (~10lbs. ea. so ~40 lbs. total)
...3rd test - A custom built 14S 48V 15AH Lithium module (made of 3.7V nominal pouch cells)

Other specs:
Wheels: 20" BMX bicycle wheels with a ~61" circumference
Gear Ratio: 7.2:1 (10T drive sprocket & 72T driven sprocket)
Chain: #35 pitch

Power Meter: PZEM-051
Speedometer: Cell Phone with speedometer app

To get an estimate of what speed a set up like this might produce I use my Ball Park Equation

Ballpark Equation
MS/GR=ASxTC=IM/FT=FMxHR=FHxMM= MPH

Motor Speed/Gear Ratio=Axle Speed x Tire Circumference = Inches per Minute traveled/Foot(12) = Feet per Minute traveled x Hour(60) = Feet per Hour traveled x MPH Multiplier(.000189) = Miles Per Hour

Here is the math, using the above specs:
3,000 (Motor Speed or RPM's) divided by 7.2 (Gear Ratio)= 416.67 (Axle Speed or RPM's)
416.67 (AS) x 61" (Tire Cir.) = 25,416.87 (Inches per minute traveled)
25,416.87 (IM) divided by 12 (Inch per Foot) = 2,118.07 (Feet Traveled per minute)
2,118.07 (FM) x 60 (Minutes per Hour) = 127,084.20 (Feet Traveled per hour)
127,084.20 (FH) x .000189 (mileage multiplier) = 24.02 MPH

IMO getting a top speed of ~24 MPH out of a prototype kart

...running on plastic Bicycle wheels

...& powered by a 1.2HP motor, seems like a good place to start our testing biggrin



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Next, is to get the system connected up biggrin

 

AS I mentioned, the motor I'm using is a MY-1020 48V 1,000W brushed motor (~1.2HP) (currently ~$100.00)

...with an average 20A draw (1,000W/48V =20.83A)
&
The Speed Controller is a Mode1: YK31C (I think that (1) should be an "L") ...Chinesium? (currently ~$30.00)

&

Thumb Throttle (currently) ~$10.00

So, the whole "propulsion unit" is only ~$150.00

 

YK31 Speed Controller Specifications:

Rated Voltage: 48VDC (means that it's for use with 48V systems)
Power Rating: 1,000W (means that it's for use with up to 1,000W motors)
Under Voltage: 42V+/- 0.5V (means that the controller will "shut the system down" at ~42V to protect the battery pack)
...& the +/- 0.5V (means that there is a 0.5V variable so, it will shut down somewhere/anywhere in between 41.5V & 42.5V)
Handle: 1-4V (means that the controller is set up for use with a 1-4V Hall Effect type Throttle)

Connections:

Speed Adjustment: Connect to the Throttle
Brake: (signal) Connect to the Brake light switch
Indicateor light: Connect to the Voltage meter (more Chinesium?)
Electric Lock: Connect to the On/Off switch
Motor: Connector to the motor
Battery: Connect to the battery cables

* Not shown are the connectors for the Brake light & also, the Charge Port

SAM_0779.JPG



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Here is a first systems check video biggrin

It didn't "turn out" quite as expected no

...but, were making progress wink



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Quote from the previous video: "I think we "smoked" that motor" no

FYI: Last summer I first tried testing that little 48V 1,000W motor, on my Hell-raiser kart
...powered by a 48V 400A Kell controller (instead of the proper size 48V 20A controller)


The kart zipped right along (~26MPH top speed)
...was very peppy
...& even did a couple of donuts (~2.55)
...but then, flames started shooting out of the ventilation holes, of the motor (~3.25) confuse

So, I was just trying to see if I could get a little bit "more" out of it, on this kart
...but, I guess NOT

So, don't blame the motor
...that one, was "my bad" hmm



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For reference, here is an example of a couple of karts, with the 48V 1,000W motor, YK-31 controller & (4) 12V 12AH SLA's combo, "in action" 

...& shows how they should/usually perform biggrin

 

* Cotton Candy has a standard ladder style of frame

...& the Torsk kart has a backbone chassis



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Keep up the good work!

It would be easy enough to switch to a castle nut with a spacer washer behind it so the safety clip passes through the slots in the nut.

What motor are you going to use now?

The my1020d kit from vevor is cost effective 

Just a thought. 



-- Edited by Archer321 on Sunday 8th of October 2023 02:05:53 PM

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Hey Archer,
Thanks!
Yes, I'm working on a solution that will include Castle Nuts
...& also, trying to get a bit more ground clearance

Right now, it sits at ~1 3/4"

...so, it'll "clear" a 2" x 2"

...but, that height isn't realistically feasible for testing, on my "neighborhood test track"
SAM_0734 (2).JPG
Besides scraping & potentially damaging the chassis
...& to make things worse, "bottoming out" causes the kart to lose traction
...be it, propulsion traction, steering traction &/or braking traction (they are all bad)

Here's the front of the kart

SAM_0737 (2).JPG
So, yea, it's really low

SAM_0736 (2).JPG

...& so, no testing until I can gain some more ground clearance

* It would have been so much easier to "raise" the chassis "if" I would have incorporated a suspension system
...just adjust the coil-over shocks

...or just install longer ones wink



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I did an autopsy on the motor biggrin

...& it wasn't pretty no

 



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Keep in mind that this was from a 1,000W motor with a ~20A rating
...& I made it output ~5X it's "factory specified book rating"

If you thoroughly analyze the data in the Hell-raiser Maiden Voyage video (posted previously & it's a wealth of "real world" data) you'll see that, when I first took off from a dead stop
...the meter showed that (1,000W) motor was registering as ~5,000W
...& the corresponding Amperage draw was ~108A (see video @ ~1:40)

Then, further along in the video, when accelerating out of a turn
...the motor registered as ~5,800W
...& the corresponding Amp reading was ~122A (@~2:15)

Later, when I "punched it" @~3:25 is when the flames started shooting out
...& I just happened to get it on camera biggrin

Now for comparison, I tested the same 48V 1,000W MY-1020 motor (& same (4) 12V 12AH SLA's) on my Excalibur kart 

...but, "ran" it with the proper YK-31 (~20A) speed controller

Notice in this video (another wealth of "real world" data) that upon first "take off" or hard acceleration (@2:02)

...the motor registered as 1,644W (on the meter)

...& the corresponding Amperage draw was ~34.45A

Then,
At (2:04) the motor registers as ~1,712W
...& the amp draw was ~37.69A

The highest numbers that I saw were ~1,760W (@~2:05)
& ~38.26A

 

Even, upon accelerating out of a "donut" (@~4.:56)
...the motor registered as ~1,701W
...& the Amp draw was ~37.77A 

* So, it looks like these MY-1020 motors will put out a bit more power, than they are rated for

...but, if you overload them, too much, they will "burn out" no



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To take it one step further & collect more data, I installed a second 48V 1,000W MY-1020 motor
...a YK-31 SC
...(4) brand new 12V 15AH SLA batteries
...& took it for another ride (& recorded some data) biggrin

Assumptions:
First of all, I assumed that having (2) motors, would make it go faster
...but, it didn't

Secondly, I thought using (2) motors, the data would double (Wattage, Amperage & Voltage drop)
...but, they didn't either

Here is a quick comparison of some of the data 
Single motor
Take off Wattage: ~1,644W
Amperage: ~34.45A
Voltage drop: ~6V

Dual motors
Take off Wattage: ~2,400W
Amperage: ~52.12
Voltage drop: ~5V

So, I'm thinking that the (2) motors worked together
...so, neither one of them, had to "carry" as much of the load
&
As such the power usage was more than what just (1) motor alone would require
...but also, wasn't double what a single motors numbers were either 

Just a bit more info about these little motors wink



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I installed a new Unite MY-1020 48V 1,000W motor
SAM_0898.JPG
To gain a bit more clearance, I made up a couple of adapters, for the rear

SAM_0848 (1).JPG
...& up in the front, I removed, adjusted & reinstalled the Spindle Tubes

SAM_0894 (1).JPG

I think we are ready for another system check biggrin



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I made up a couple of new rear wheel mounting adapters (without slots)

 

...because trying to align the rear wheel with (2) horizontal adjustment slots & (2) vertical adjustment slots, was a nightmare

 

I also, installed the new brackets with a couple of extra bolts, on each side (in addition to the 1/2" bolt)

...to secure & strengthen, where the rear wheel adapter brackets mount, to the chassis

 

* I will use Castle Nuts & Safety clips on the (2) 1/2" bolts (previous axle bolts) after painting & re-installing the brackets

SAM_0921.JPG

I had to lengthen the chain a little bit, due to moving the rear wheel 

SAM_0855.JPG

FYI: The chain adjustment, is still actuated by moving the rear wheel 

...now, it just works by "Cam Action", instead of sliding

 

** I also, have a Castle Nut & Safety Pin on the rear axle, now biggrin

SAM_0922.JPG



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How do you'all get all (3) wheels, in alignment?

I figured the rear wheel is pretty much "fixed"
...so, I worked off of it, to align the front wheels (left side of drawing)
...& then, "Toe" the front side, of both of the front wheels, inwards ~1/8" (right side of the drawing)

SAM_0945.JPG

I set the kart on a big piece of cardboard to help set & illustrate the alignment

First, squared the front wheels with the rear wheel

SAM_0927.JPG

Then, Toe'd them inwards ~1/8"

SAM_0928.JPG

A video of progress



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I do my alignments basically the same way. I work off the thrust line of the rear wheel like you did.

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I did a first test ride video

I mainly concentrated on recording them plastic BMX bicycle wheels (just in case they failed)
...but also, got some speed & power usage data



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Your alignment method looks good. I would suggest making a 'steering lock' that lets you lock the steering wheel dead straight when doing alignment. We normally paint it orange to remind us to take it off before driving.
Next write down a couple of measurements such as back of front wheels to frame and front of rear wheel to frame. 
Then if there is an 'incident' at the track, you can throw on the steering lock, check your measurements and reset the alignment quickly with just a tape measure.
BTW What is your thinking on the 1/8" toe in?

 



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Hey Archer,
Yup, that seemed like the best wat to do it.

Hey Pro EV,
That's a great idea
...simple to use & should give very consistent results.

Have a pic or example of this "steering lock"?

* Using ~1/8" of toe in is common practice in the go kart world

This adjustment usually helps the steering wheels, "work together"
...so, the steering (& kart) doesn't feel so "squirrelly"
...& also, helps the vehicle goes straighter, down the road, with less effort.

** The steering on the Polaris kart seemed to be functioning pretty well, on that first test ride.

What did you guys think?

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Zero toe offers the least rolling resistance, so it seems a good place to start. If there is any give in the steering system, a small amount of static toe in (like 1/32 or 1/16) might give zero toe when in motion. Toe out helps with turn in. Toe in helps with stability in a straight line.

Looking at your design, I do not see an easy way to 'lock' the steering. Making a mark on the steering shaft and the bearing? might be a way to get a close to exact repeatable steering position. 



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Hey ProEV,

"Toe out helps with turn in."
I've never heard of this, could you please explain further?

* I've had to "fix" the steering on a couple of go karts, that had the wheels toed outwards (they were difficult, unpredictable & sometimes scary to drive)
...but, after aligning the wheels
...& then, toeing the front wheels inwards, a little bit
...they seemed to drive much better

** The way I squared the steering wheel, was to measure from the floorboard, up to the top of each side of the steering wheel (19 5/8")
...& then, used a bungy cord to "lock" it in place, while adjusting the tie rods.

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I was able to do another test run

...& tried to record most of it

...mainly acceleration, speed & power meter data, this time biggrin

I also, temporarily clamped a CAD (cardboard aided design) hood on, just to get an idea of what it would be like, with a body.

 



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Analyzing the data from the last test run video, the Voltage drop on these (4) 12V 20AH SLA's seemed to stay pretty consistent, at ~3V

While cruising at top speed, with a WOT, it looked like the average wattage reading was in the ~500W - 700W range
...with corresponding amperage readings of ~10A - 15A (ex: 580W & 12.13A @2:32)

Then, accelerating out of a couple of turns, I saw 1,127W & 23.4A (~2:46)
...& also, 1,316W & 28.5A (~6:00)

The highest readings that I saw was 1,555W & 34.8A (~13:32) accelerating out of another turn

* It seems like the numbers (W & A) rose a little bit over the course of the test (maybe happens as the motor warms up? or maybe, as the voltage level in the battery pack decreases?)

The acceleration seemed good 

...& it looked like the top speed increased from 22MPH (in the first test ride video) up to 23MPH 

...maybe due to being a bit more aerodynamic, because the CAD hood? 


Listening to the motor & drive train, when accelerating, the "wind up" sounded good
...it didn't sound like it (the motor) was ever struggling
...but also, at top speed it didn't sound like it was "winding out" & you felt like you needed to "shift up" to a higher gear biggrin

It looked like, during this ~20 minute test

...we drained ~110Wh out of the battery pack 

...traveled ~4 miles

...had a top speed of ~23MPH

...& the average speed was ~11MPH

 

The kart seemed to perform pretty well (& as anticipated) overall

...the chassis felt firm without any noticeable flexing

...the seat was comfy & held me in place pretty good

...the steering was pretty easy to maneuver (drove (1) handed most of the time while holding the camera)

...the alignment seemed good didn't notice much if any "scrubbing" & it seemed to coast pretty well too 

 

** Let me know anything I might have left out

...&/or anything you guys may have noticed 

 

*** Another thought about steering "toe in"

I was thinking where a term like "toe in" would have come from (or where I'd heard it before)

IIRC it's a Skiing term

...& they say that you need to keep your big toes (& front of the ski's) pointed inwards a little bit, which will help you to go straight (in this analogy, the ski's would be the wheels)

...& "if" you don't FWIU (I'm not a skier) things can get all "squirrelly" & hard to control. (& then, hello Mr. Tree) wink



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I have been looking around to try & find out/understand why the front wheel "wobbled around" &/or "acted goofy" a couple of times, on the last test ride.
...& it looks like the steering shaft is flexing in the middle (~1/2")

So, I inserted a solid rod, inside of it, to help stiffen it up
...but, I may have to install a center support, we'll see. confuse



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Functional Artist wrote:

Hey ProEV,

"Toe out helps with turn in."
I've never heard of this, could you please explain further?

* I've had to "fix" the steering on a couple of go karts, that had the wheels toed outwards (they were difficult, unpredictable & sometimes scary to drive)
...but, after aligning the wheels
...& then, toeing the front wheels inwards, a little bit
...they seemed to drive much better

** The way I squared the steering wheel, was to measure from the floorboard, up to the top of each side of the steering wheel (19 5/8")
...& then, used a bungy cord to "lock" it in place, while adjusting the tie rods.


With Toe In, both front tires are trying to center the car. They are constantly working against each other to keep the vehicle straight. This tends to make the vehicle 'stable' or 'dull' depending if the driver likes it or not.

With Toe out, both front tires are constantly loaded to turn outwards. The vehicle tends to wander down the straight as the load between wheels fluctuate. The steering is either 'all over the place' or 'sensitive' depending on whether things are going well or not.

Going into a turn, the toe out helps the car respond instantly to turn in to the corner, since the inside wheel is already trying to turn the car. When a driver is unhappy with initial turn in response, this is a quick fix.



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Hey ProEV,

Excellent info, thanks!

I removed the (4) 12V 20AH SLA's, to move on to test/try a 14S 48V Lithium battery
...& while I had the battery pack removed, I went ahead & put the kart on a scale

SAM_1050 (1).JPG

Looks like the entire kart (without battery pack) weighs just a bit over 100 lbs.

SAM_1051 (1).JPG



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I assembled a 14S 48V ~15AH Lithium battery pack, out of (14) Chevy Volt (gen 1) Lithium battery cells

I made/used a DIY plastic top, as a cell holder 

SAM_0981.JPG

During assembly, I also, installed individual BMS (battery monitoring system) "leads" to every cell 

SAM_0986.JPG

Then, I made a steel box to contain the pack & help protect the cells

SAM_0997.JPG

I mounted a shunt (sends data/info up to the PZEM-051 power meter, on the dashboard) inside of a piece of vinyl tube (to insulate it from...everything)

SAM_1011.JPG

...& mounted "it" inside of the box

 

* Notice there are (3) "sets" of wires coming out

On top are the shunt connectors

In the middle are the (2) (10g.) battery cables & XT90 connector (used for charging & discharging)

On the bottom is the (15) wire BMS harness

SAM_1016.JPG



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* I for got to mention, that I discharged the cells down to ~3.2V before assembling the pack
...so, I wasn't working with fully charged cells.

After assembly, I wired in some Cell Checker connectors, onto the cell "leads" to be able to double check the individual cell voltages

SAM_1077.JPG

They all look pretty good

...so, I started taking some notes/kept a log

...& began re-charging the pack 

 

I have/use a Yewi UY600 48V 10A Lithium battery charger
...with the top charge level factory preset to 4.15V per cell (or 58.1V)
SAM_1061 (1).JPG
Specs

SAM_1062 (1).JPG

While the pack was charging, I worked on/made a terminal cover
SAM_1040 (1).JPG



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"Operating within specified parameters"

On Startrek, The Next Generation, there was a highly functioning android (robot) named Data
...& when someone asked him, "how he was doing today?"
...he would respond with "operating within specified parameters" (meaning "I'm fine" & everything is working as it should)

I try to practice & use this concept, when working with many things (especially electrical systems)
...but, first you have to know what the limitations, of a situation are, to be able to establish &/or set some parameters 

For example:

The (4) 12V 20AH SLA batteries (that I used in the first test run)

Voltage Range
These SLA's have a safe usable voltage range of ~13.5V (high) down to ~10.5V (low)
...so, each battery has a ~3V of usable voltage
...& for the pack (as a whole) the voltage range is ~53V (high) down to ~41V (low)

* Which gives us a usable voltage range of ~12V

Current
The 20AH rating, means that they are rated, to be able to put out ~20A for 1 hour
...or ~40V for ~1/2 hour
...or (taking it the other way) ~10A for ~2 hours

* So, these batteries can be "safely" discharged at ~20A
...drawing less than 20A, would be better
...& drawing any more than that, is "getting out of the specs"

Capacity
If discharging at ~20A (the max current draw, during that 1st test run, according to the meter) the Max discharge (like we subjected these batteries to)
...would be considered a 1C discharge rate
...& the average draw (during that run) was in the ~10A - 15A range (which would be a .5C - .75C rate)

So, the parameters for this pack would be:
...do not recharge it above ~53V
...do not discharge it below ~41V
...& it would be best to try & keep the current, drawn from it, in the ~20A (or less) range


* Feel free to comment &/or add anything pertinent, or that I may have left out biggrin



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Next, let's discuss the parameters of the 14S 48V ~15AH Lithium battery pack (that I assembled for Polaris)

The LG Chem (gen 1) cells (out of a Chevy Volt) have a "safe" usable voltage range of (low ~3V) up to a (high ~4.15V) per cell

So, (14) of these cells, connected together "in series", would create a 14S 48V 15AH Lithium battery pack
...with a "safe" usable voltage range of (low ~42V) up to a (high ~58.1V)

...have a ~15A C rating

...contains ~735Wh of energy
...& weighs ~12lbs. (cells only, not including the box)



So, the parameters for this 14S 48V ~15AH Lithium pack would be:

A "safe" usable voltage range of ~16V as long as we:

...do not recharge it above ~58V
...do not discharge it below ~42V
...& it would be best to try & keep the current, drawn from it, in the ~15A (or less) range biggrin



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Me & Polaris smile

SAM_1088 (1).JPG

Test run, with the 14S 48V 15AH Lithium battery pack biggrin



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I made a center support for the steering shaft (to keep the steering shaft from flexing in the middle)
SAM_1171.JPG

* Adding a bearing or bushing in the middle of a shaft, isn't the easiest thing to do
...because, "if" the bearing isn't pretty well centered, on the shaft (in between the other (2) bearings) it will cause resistance

Especially if welding the bearing holder "in place"
...because when welding, it "draws" the (2) pieces of metal together a little bit
...& again, "if" the bearing isn't pretty well centered, on the shaft there will be resistance

So, my plan is to weld the bearing support bar, on to the chassis
...& then, bolt the bushing holder, to the support bar

Like this:

SAM_1175.JPG

SAM_1174.JPG

I used a plastic sheet & a welding apron to help protect the chassis (during this procedure)

SAM_1186.JPG

Like this:

SAM_1201 (1).JPG

Time for another test run biggrin



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Once you put the center bearing in do you really need the front bearing or for the shaft to continue all the way to the front? It's not really doing anything anymore is it?

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Research & Development
Design a kart, build it, test it, evaluate the performance, find & fix any flaws
...re-test & then, re-evaluate & find & fix any "new issues" that may arise

So, from personal observations, during testing & reviewing the last couple of test run videos
...it seems like these plastic 20" BMX bicycle wheels, are flexing pretty good (actually not good) on hard (er) turns
...& then the "spring back" was being sent back (thru the tie rods) to the steering shaft (causing it to flex)

Then, when I added the center support, it "braced" the steering shaft from flexing
...but, that spring back energy (from the wheels flexing) didn't "go away"
...& was then, up to the steering wheel (causing it to shake)

* I first noticed & started trying to include the steering wheel shaking (~5:00 into last video)
...& (after further review) it seems to happen every time the front wheels start wobbling (after taking hard(er) turns)


"Once you put the center bearing in do you really need the front bearing or for the shaft to continue all the way to the front? It's not really doing anything anymore is it?"

Hey Archer,
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss & expand on this further

Probably/technically, no
...but, I would think that "in this situation" any additional support, would be beneficial
...with all of the "feedback' the steering is having to deal with (from the plastic wheels flexing so much)

* Personally, I don't think this situation is unsafe or dangerous
...it's more like a "knowing the karts limitations" thing (another, setting parameters & operating within them kinda thing)

So, for this racer, the wheels/steering don't like, or do well on, sharp turns
...it'll do 'em (who knows for how long)
...but, it would probably be best "ta not to"


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Steering Issues Evaluation

The Domino Effect

It seems like a (my) component choice (big, plastic wheels) + a design error (short spindle arms) added up to = create an effect (an overleveraged steering shaft)

So, when them big, plastic wheels started flexing (on turns)

...& then, springing back (into shape)

...they were sending that energy, back thru the tie rods, to the steering shaft (causing it to "bow")

Then, when I added the center brace (stiffening & stopping the shaft from bowing)

...it just resulted in sending that feedback, up thru the steering shaft, to the steering wheel (causing it to shake) 

Potential Solution

I could install a steering damper or shock, to help "catch" or absorb most of the "feedback" from the front wheels wobbling

...but, it seems like that would (probably) cause that "energy" or "feedback" (from the wheels wobbling) to stay concentrated in them plastic wheels (increasing the risk of failure)

 

So, for now, I'm just going to "run 'er as is" 

...& do some (lots) more testing biggrin


The Math

These wheels are ~20" across

...so, from the axle to the edge of the wheel, would be a ~10" "lever"

...& the spindle arms are ~3 1/2"

So, the wheels have a "leverage" advantage of ~3:1 over the spindle arms

Comparison

The spindle arms are usually ~3 1/2" on many go karts that have ~12" - 14" front wheels

...so, if using 3 1/2" spindle arms to control a ~14" wheel (~7" lever) the wheels would have a ~2:1 leverage advantage

So, on my next racer, I'm going to try & design the steering system

...so, that the wheels will only have a ~2:1 leverage advantage, over the spindle arms 



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